Grief and loss are complex feelings that bring up a range of emotions. From overwhelming sadness to anger and confusion, the grieving process is often a difficult journey. This post can help you navigate through grief and loss.
Grief and Anniversaries
Emma:
Well, hi everyone. Today I have brought in a special guest. This is Sarah Engler. She is a licensed clinical social worker and she specializes in grief. And I put out a question on my channel the other day, you know, what questions do you have for an expert in grief? And we literally got like hundreds and hundreds of questions, right? So I’m just super glad that you are here today. Thank you for joining.
Sarah:
Thanks for having me.
Emma:
And we are gonna jump right into answering your questions.
Sarah:
So before we jump in, I just wanted to say I was super impressed with the questions that you guys sent in. So what I was really impressed with when I was reading through your questions is the recognition that there are so many different types of loss. It’s not just when someone we love dies. Um, so you were recognizing. that when we transition in different phases of life, um, certainly ending of relationships, uh, but I was just really, uh, impressed and glad to see that we’re becoming more and more aware that we can experience grief, uh, in many different ways, many different times of our life.
Emma:
Yeah. And they’re just such good questions and I think people are increasing their awareness around grief.
Sarah:
Yep.
Emma:
And at the same time, I’m learning as I ask these questions, so you know how universal this experience is. Like how many people are struggling with it and don’t really necessarily. have the tools to work through it. So today, hopefully we can help them get a few more.
Sarah:
Yes, absolutely.
Emma:
Cool. All right, well let’s jump in. So the first question, or the first topic I wanna address, uh, from these questions we got is about anniversaries. So we got a comment from a follower and they said, “I seem to ruminate or fixate on the anniversaries of when people in my life have passed away. No matter how many years have gone by or how much work I’ve done in therapy. Some years are better than others. While some are just overwhelming, almost as if they had just died and it hadn’t been five or 10 or 15 years or however long.” And this person asks, “Is there any way to help people prepare for these upcoming death reminders so they aren’t so emotionally jarring? It’s almost like I dread the entire month just because of that one day simply due to how emotional I become. Then when the next month begins, it’s like a huge relief. It’s like I can go back to sort of living my life again, at least until the next anniversary comes around.”
Sarah:
Yeah. So anniversaries can be very difficult, especially the first year. And so I just wanna touch on that for a second. Um, so when we go through all of the firsts, um, after we’ve, uh, ended a relationship or as in this situation, someone has died. So each of the holidays, each of the birthdays, um, certainly the anniversary of their death, um, can be incredibly hard. It’s not uncommon for initially the goal to be, I wanna get through this day without remembering. Without thinking about what the significance of this day is. So if that’s happening, just understand very common for that to sort of be the initial response. Yes, eventually, uh, the ideas we, we are able to shift from that. So let me address a couple of things first. Um, yeah, if you’re continuing to experience a lot of pain around the anniversaries, um, one suggestion would be to give yourself permission. So in other words, you plan this week. I know that this week, um, I’m gonna be a mess. Um, and so I’m gonna put things in place, so that might mean I’m taking time off work. That might mean I’ve got some additional, um, uh, help with the kids. But I’m intentionally planning to give myself space to be a little bit of a mess. And so I’m not having to dread it. I’m not having to make it a a month long challenge. Um, I’ve set aside some time and that can help me sort of manage those feelings up until that point. (1)
Emma:
Yeah, which kind of gives you space to kind of lean into that instead of trying to avoid or push through or rush through it.
Sarah:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Emma:
Okay.
Sarah:
So that’s one suggestion. Another would be, um, and I don’t know, it hasn’t been mentioned here, but at some point, bringing in, um, gratitude and or meaning with the anniversary of loss. Uh, and so that can be as simple as I’m going to, um, write a letter to the person that I’ve lost and express gratitude. Um, I’ve got one client who lost a sister and is decided to make a Christmas ornament in her memory in her honor. And then each year at Christmas, that ornament goes up and he then has the opportunity to remember and celebrate her life and not just, um, what it is that he’s lost. So bringing in, it doesn’t mean that the sadness, the pain, um, those feelings are gone. You are just adding in gratitude and meeting in addition to that.
Emma:
Yeah. And I love, um, as I listen to you, I’m reminded of the intentional strategy that comes with processing grief because my initial thought was, oh, let’s, let’s choose some way to remember them. Let’s choose some way to honor them. And really first, before we do all that busyness, you gotta go like, slow down, lean in. Allow yourself to feel. And then when you’re ready, you could make space to maybe create some meaning or do some honoring or some kind of remembrance. So for example, I have a friend who’s lost, um, three children in pregnancy. Um, and she considers them her children, right? Named They have their birthdates. And, um, on their birthdates, she goes and puts balloons on their graves. And then she also talks about them on social media, which is a way of reaching out. And in that way, like she’s honoring them. But if you just like try and do something really busy that also could like ….
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
Prevent you from processing. Right?
Sarah:
Yeah. No, that’s one of the most significant things about grief is it’s never …. okay, I dunno if I can say never. I’ve yet to see it be just one emotion. Yeah. It’s so many different emotions that we experience as we’re processing and dealing with loss. And it’s really important to give yourself permission to experience all of those different things. You know, together. And it’s, we don’t have to pick one or the other.
Emma:
I like that. I like that a lot. So an anniversary could be something where you allow yourself to feel sadness and maybe some anger and maybe some gratitude and maybe some happy memories and trying to like handle feeling all of those parts
Sarah:
Yes.
Emma:
Is part of this process. And that makes sense why It’s hard.
Sarah:
None of this is easy. None of this is easy.
Emma:
Yeah, totally. Great. Okay, thanks.
Cumulative Grief
Emma:
Okay, so our next question is from someone who said, “I’ve lost three pets and three very close family members in the last five years. I feel almost numb at this point. How does compounded grief affect me? Am I getting better at coping or have I lost my ability to work through the trauma? I feel like I randomly just cry and I’m taking anxiety and depression medication, but I’m exhausted. I don’t feel any enthusiasm about anything anymore.”
Sarah:
All right. So, this is a really good question. The first thing I wanna touch on is as you’re reading through different material, you’re going to see that different people use different names for the types of grief. What I’m gonna talk about are the names that I use. It won’t necessarily match other people’s ideas, so just keep that in mind. What she’s actually addressing is cumulative grief. So that is grief that we experience. It can be a couple of different ways. One is we experience, many griefs over a short period of time. Many types of losses over a short period of time or we’re still processing a significant loss and we experience a second. To get to the point where you feel like, I just can’t take this anymore. So I think that’s the first point I wanna make is that there is something real going on here. Many of us experienced cumulative grief during the COVID pandemic, right? We experienced just loss after loss, after loss. And got to the point where we were numb and or exhausted. So the first step is to just recognize and validate there’s something real happening here. The next is to begin to work through the grief. So, it doesn’t really matter which loss you start with. So it’s all grief, it’s all loss. So the idea is you need to connect with, feel, experience, express the emotions, allow your grief to be seen. So it goes back to all those basic principles of how to move through grief.
Emma:
Which you talk about in your nine keys to grief and loss.
Sarah:
Yes. Yeah. So those nine keys, whether type of grief we’re talking about, those Nine Keys work for whatever type of grief we’re talking about. So with compound grief, um, you’re again, you could start with, I’m going to make a timeline of all the losses I’ve experienced. Sometimes for people, it’s a little bit eye-opening and they recognize, wow, okay, it’s no wonder I’m feeling overwhelmed. It’s no wonder I’m exhausted.
Emma:
Mm-hmm. And sometimes just like acknowledging that those are like losses and they’re valid is enough to help start people moving a little bit forward. It’s strange how that works, right? Like, they like just accepting and validating is helpful.
Sarah:
Well, you’re, because you’re again leaning into rather than, I’m trying to have a wall up or I’m trying to avoid or pretend it’s not real or true or all of those things. So just by that acknowledgement you’re actually beginning the process. So there may be, this may be a situation where, um, additional support is needed.
Emma:
Yeah, that’s what I was just thinking.
Sarah:
Yep. So meeting with a therapist would probably be my recommendation. To start, um, walking through all of these different losses and, um, being able to talk about them. Again, another important part of this is allowing your grief to be seen.
Emma:
Mm-hmm. So allowing your grief to be seen for someone, let’s say someone maybe can’t access therapy right now. And I know a lot of my audience can’t. So maybe, and therapy’s awesome. I love therapy, right? But not everyone can access it or afford it or can find someone. So if they can’t do that, letting your grief be seen might look like, um, writing about it, diagramming it, like doing something to make it physical and concrete. (2)
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
Or talking about it with a friend. I know I’ve told you about this, but can I just talk it through with you again?
Sarah:
Absolutely.
Emma:
And finding a good, you know, safe friend to do that with.
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
Um, or doing some other physical process, some way to make your, your grief physical or outward or concrete, right?
Sarah:
So art is often something that can be useful as a way to express and visually show, yeah here’s what’s happening for me.
Emma:
Art or music and now, right now I’m imagining my friend who experienced a very complicated situation, her husband actually, um, committed suicide while attempting, right after attempting to kill her. Right? Very complicated situation. And so there’s all these mixed feelings or he tried to commit suicide and take her with him, basically.
Sarah:
Right, right.
Emma:
Uh, and they’re a big hunting family. They’re very, um, you know, blue collar. They’re awesome. A great friend of mine. And her son, the way he’s working through a lot of this is a lot of hiking and a lot of thinking about his dad while he’s out hunting. And that’s like a physical way of like processing this, that’s maybe not what you would traditionally see in …. Like he’s not gonna go to a therapist’s office. But he’s trying to process it in this way and honor his dad and pull out pictures of his dad when they were hunting and things. Obviously that’s just really complicated situation.
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
But there’s a lot of ways you can start making your grief public, like you said.
Sarah:
Right. I love that example because it really, um, demonstrates that this process is so uniquely individual. There is no one right way to walk through and process your grief. Um, and so yes, it’s thinking about you as an individual and what would be supportive and helpful to you. Um, and so I, I love that example.
Emma:
Um, I don’t know. How do you want to talk about, am I getting better? I mean, we don’t see her. We don’t know her. So it’s hard to answer a specific question about that.
Sarah:
Right. Well, where she’s, where she’s identifying that she’s feeling numb and exhausted not experiencing joy. That would not suggest that she’s coping better.
Emma:
Okay.
Sarah:
That would suggest that, um, she’s hunkering down, that she’s in survival mode.
Emma:
You know, you’re getting better when you’re getting better at feeling instead of shrinking and crushing those feelings down and getting number and number and number. And that’s the main idea of like the work we do. Like let’s get better at feeling.
Sarah:
Yep. Yeah. I really feel like that is the key to so much of what goes on day to day in our human experience.
Emma:
And there’s an emphasis on like getting, feeling better or like feeling happy. And it’s like, what if we just get better at feeling.
Sarah:
Whatever the feeling is.
Emma:
Yeah. Get really good at it. You can handle having feelings.
Sarah:
Yep. Totally.
Emma:
All right. I think we answered that one now.
Sarah:
Okay.
Healthy vs. Disordered Grieving
Emma:
Okay. So then, so the next question we’re gonna address is about like, what is the difference between, complex grief and normal grief? How do we know when we’re having a normal grieving process or when it’s getting perhaps disordered?
Sarah:
Yeah, yeah. It’s a really significant question. Uh, again, I think society as a whole, we don’t do a great job of talking about and supporting one another in the grieving process.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
And so often, uh, as soon as we start experiencing we’re, we’re thinking, I must be crazy or, uh, I don’t know what normal is. So normal grief, how we know, um, that we’re experiencing normal grief is we are moving towards acceptance of the loss. And as we’re moving towards that, accept, uh, acceptance, our symptoms decrease. So they become less intense. So that is really, um, the key to, um, how we would define normal loss. Uh, and as I said earlier, uh, it typically when we’re dealing with significant loss, that’s anywhere from six months to two years. Um, that may be a little shocking to some people. Wait, I thought it was a week.
Emma:
I want to just clarify because when you say their symptoms are decreasing, we wouldn’t even expect to see that in the first month. or weak necessary.
Sarah:
Correct. Correct.
Emma:
We wouldn’t have any expectations that you should, like day one you’ll feel worstest and day two and three. Like the first couple months might be, you just might see ups and downs,
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
Just as severe.
Sarah:
Very likely. Yeah. Very likely. That is what you see in the first few months? Yes, that’s a really good clarification. Okay. So then when we’re talking about complicated grief, what we notice is that the symptoms are not improving. And again, we’re talking about over months. The symptoms are not improving and potentially are getting worse. So when someone is experiencing, uh, those kinds of, uh, increasing symptoms, um, so they’re feeling, uh, more intense emotional reactions, they’re trusting people less. They’re withdrawing and that lasts for, uh, a year. We can actually, um, give a diagnosis of complicated grief.
Emma:
Mm-hmm, so complicated grief is acknowledge diagnosis in the DSM-5 and the ICD. Yes. Um, as, you know, mental health disorder that when grief goes on, gets worse, is unresolved, um, not like you necessarily resolve grief, but it just gets worse.
Sarah:
Right. Right.
Emma:
It can be a, a disorder that’s and then you can also get funding to get it treated as well, right? Like that’s one of the benefits of using, you know, pathology language. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah:
So I do think it’s important what we’re talking about here is once we’ve stepped into the processing of grief. If we’re just in a place of avoidance or distraction or ignoring, these pieces don’t apply. It’s we’re stepping into it and it’s, um, complex grief is interfering with our ability to function on a daily basis. Um, would be another piece of that, again, normal to see that initially with all grief, with all significant loss if it continues for a year or more.
Emma:
Yeah. Okay. So when your functionings interfered with for a year or more, that can qualify as, um, a mental health disorder. Correct. Complicated grief.
Sarah:
Yes.
Unconventional Grief
Emma:
Okay, so we also had a lot of people ask questions about what about losses that are maybe, uh, unconventional losses that wouldn’t be considered the same as maybe losing a family member to death but losses of a pet. Um, losses of a job, losses of youth, um, people who’ve experienced illnesses like especially like depression and anxiety where maybe they lost a couple years or opportunities because they were sick or mentally unhealthy. So, how do you address that?
Sarah:
Yeah, so it’s a really important question. So what we’re talking about, you used the word unconventional. Uh, we, it’s also referred to as, uh, disenfranchised grief or ambiguous grief. And so the way we define that is this is grief that is not acknowledged, recognized, or supported by the people around us or society as a whole.
Emma:
So if someone loses someone to death, like society knows what to do. They bring you meals, they hold the funeral, they ask you how you’re doing, they send flowers. Like there’s a system for those.
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
But if you lose your pet or if you lose a child to a miscarriage or you know, you lose your job, people are like, we don’t know what to do.
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
There’s no system.
Sarah:
If it, yeah. If it’s even a thought that occurs to them that it, that there was a loss. So loss is about, we’re deprived of someone or something that we value. And so the only person that gets to define what that is, is each of us. It’s not for somebody else to define. So if we use the example of a pet for one person, yeah, they had a pet. The pet died. There wasn’t a lot of attachment there for them. For another person, they experience painful heartbreak when this pet dies. And it’s weeks or months of grieving that loss. And, and so there can be really significant differences. Um, so it’s again, important to acknowledge that loss is something of significance to you. Other ways that we can see this happening is with, um, for instance, if you had the death of a partner in an extramarital affair. If you are talking about a domestic um, abuse situation and the abuser dies.
Emma:
Right.
Sarah:
The assumption is, well, the survivor has to be so relieved, is so much better off than and so that survivor will often feel shame about experiencing grief that this person who caused them so much pain has died.
Emma:
Yeah. And people will make comments like that.
Sarah:
Yes.
Emma:
People will say, well, you should just be happy he’s gone or you should be happy she’s and, um, that doesn’t help.
Sarah:
No, no.
Emma:
Not helpful.
Sarah:
No. So, okay, so, and you also brought up, okay, what about these, um, sort of lost expectations. Um, these are lost youth if, you know, depending on what we’ve experienced. Um, I’ve had people talk about my child has developed this illness or my parent now has dementia.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
So they’re still here. Right. But the relationship is significantly changed. And what we had expected or thought was going to be is no longer the case. That is true and genuine loss.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
So that’s gonna take us back to, are you, uh, aware of what it is you’re feeling? Are you, uh, finding ways to express that? Um, so for instance, when it comes to a loss of expectations, you can have a ceremony. You can create, um, either, write up a letter or you have these objects that represent and you have a ceremony where they’re buried. Um, or you can do other symbolic things where you’re acknowledging this is a real and true I can put my hands on this loss. And you know, I’m acknowledging it and letting it go um, or working to let it go. Um, so those kinds of experiences are all real, all valid, and important for us to feel and express.
Emma:
Yeah. And again, going back to those Nine Keys that you teach in your course, like there are systematic steps to processing it but what a lot of these people need is just a name for it, right? This is unconventional grief or disenfranchised or ambiguous loss.
Sarah:
Real. It’s real.
Emma:
And it’s real.
Sarah:
Yes.
Emma:
And it’s real.
Sarah:
Absolutely.
Emma:
And so that first step is like, yes, that is a valid form of loss. What you’re feeling is valid and now what?
Sarah:
.And so I, so I think an important part is in these questions that have come in, are you talking, are you talking to other people about whether it’s your partner or it’s a friend or it’s a, you know, are you expressing I am feeling so sad or hurt or angry or, um, is, or is it something that’s all just being kept inside?
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
Um, so there’s even just the sharing of here’s what’s going on for me is so important.
Emma:
Yeah. And ideally, you have someone in your life that is gonna be like, oh, I’m so sorry. Tell me about that.
Sarah:
Right, ideally, yes.
Emma:
And if you have someone in your life who’s like, well get over it, then made me choose like find someone else. Right?
Sarah:
Yes. Very, very much so.
Emma:
I can imagine people being like, oh, what’s the big deal? Right.
Sarah:
Because to them it’s not a big deal.
Emma:
They don’t understand.
Sarah:
They don’t get it.
Emma:
So how do you, how do you, like, what do you, how do you advise people in that situation? Like how do they find someone who will listen? How do you find someone who can share, you can share it with?
Sarah:
Yeah. So what we’re talking about and I do address this in the nine keys courses, finding someone who is emotionally safe.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
And so hopefully yes, you’ve had experiences where you have shared things and you’ve been heard and you haven’t been criticized or judged. So if you can think back on who were the people who were just able to hold space for me and hear where I was at. Those are the people you want to go to.
Emma:
Yeah. So if someone, they’re like, none of their family members or friends have emotional compassion and intelligence enough to be able to like empathize. There are other resources too that I’m thinking of like as you’re talking. Like a lot of, like it is not uncommon to find grief and support groups in a community. Like it’s actually one of the most common support groups and they’re often inexpensive or free.
Sarah:
Yes.
Emma:
Often hosted by hospitals and churches.
Sarah:
Yes, yes.
Emma:
Um, and so that’s one option. There’s also a lot of online support groups. With understanding people like this, like not the trolly type of people.
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
There are online support groups. Now, getting in-person help, in my opinion, is almost always better because our nervous system regulates with eye contact and hugs and physical touch and physical presence that helps the emotional healing process. So whenever possible, get a real human being to talk with, right?
Sarah:
Yeah, that’s the ideal. And we recognize that’s not always gonna be a realistic option for everyone.
Emma:
That’s right. Not everyone can find that. And especially when people’s families or social systems and networks are really, if they’re isolated hard to do.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Emma:
So get any kind of support you can.
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
Absolutely.
Grief and Anger
Emma:
Okay, so we got a lot of questions about how to deal with anger. So Aaron says, um, “How do you deal with anger after someone close dies? I feel angry, but I also feel like I don’t have a good way to focus or express or interact in a healthy way with it. I feel like it’s just kind of running around inside of me and I don’t know what to do about it.” And then Joe also asks, “So if you turn all your emotions into anger and you’ve been doing it for like 25 years, what does that mean?”
Sarah:
Yeah. Okay. Love, love this question. It’s such a good question. So first of all, completely understandable and normal that you are going to be angry sometimes after significant loss.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
I think anger gets a bad rep. I think a lot of us grow up with this idea that it’s not okay to be angry. And so we start stuffing and we start figuring out, okay, what else am I supposed to do other than be angry? So first of all, completely normal, and I’m gonna say to you, okay, that you’re angry. Anger in and of itself is not good or bad, right or wrong. It’s what we do with the anger. Yeah. So I love that they’re asking the question, okay, so I’m angry. What in the heck am I supposed to do with it? Uh, again, there’s no one right answer. Some healthy options for expressing anger would be to journal. Um, you can journal and put whatever you want in that journal. You can drop as many f-bombs as you want. Um, you can just talk about how angry and mad you are. Um, physical activity is often a helpful way to express anger. And so I, I always have this image in my head. Um, I don’t know how young or old. But when I grew up, we had these, you know, inflatables that had the weighted base.
Emma:
Yeah, yeah.
Sarah:
And so you could hit that sucker and it would go down and then bounce back up.
Emma:
Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah:
So that would be an option for expressing anger, a safe way, hitting a pillow, screaming into a pillow, um, or other ways. Artwork can be a way to express anger. If you can find someone to talk with, who has the ability to just allow you to be angry, another great way for you to express the anger. Um, but first and foremost, it is normal, completely understandable, and nothing wrong with feeling angry. The other thing I would touch on is anger can be a secondary emotion, meaning, um, it has the potential to be covering up things that are more vulnerable.
Emma:
Yeah. So we see that in this question, this guy says, “So if you turn all your emotions into anger and you’ve been doing it for like 25 years, what does that mean?” Right? Like if you’re turning those emotions into anger.
Sarah:
Right. Right. So it can feel safer. Less emotionally vulnerable because anger is typically directed outward.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
At someone or something else. I mean, it can be directed inward but so it’s typically safer to be angry than to say, I am so scared or I am so hurt or I am so sad.
Emma:
It’s a defense mechanism.
Sarah:
Mm-hmm.
Emma:
Right. It protects you from feeling those really vulnerable, tender emotions.
Sarah:
Correct. Correct. So typically what I will suggest to people is you know, check in with yourself. Am I really just feeling angry? And okay, if I am. What do I wanna do with that? Or are there some other things that are maybe a little bit more tender that I’m wanting to avoid or not sure what to do with.
Emma:
Yeah, yeah. And one of the ways I think about emotions is like, sometimes there’s kind of like a pure emotion or a clean emotion and anger in its pure emotion can serve to protect, right? It can serve a function to like take action, to create safety, and when it gets distorted or dirty or false.
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
Uh, then you’re taking like, oh, I feel really sad but I can’t feel sad, so I’m gonna feel anger. I’m gonna blame someone or I’m gonna attack someone or I’m gonna, you know, break something or, you know, explode in some way that I don’t value and that’s not helping create safety
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
Or living the way you value. So I think that’s kind of how I would differentiate between like, kind of like a pure anger that can be acknowledged and chosen what to do with versus like a, yeah, I just don’t wanna feel sad, so I’m gonna be angry.
Sarah:
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that’s a, that’s a good way to, to think about it.
Emma:
Okay. Another thing I saw about anger and I think anger’s really tricky, right? Mm-hmm. like, I have found watching myself the last couple of years is that I’m actually really comfortable with someone who’s sad. I’m really comfortable with someone who’s anxious. I’m really comfortable with someone who’s upset or grieving. And when someone’s really angry, I am much less comfortable with that emotion. Like it’s difficult emotion for me to lean into. And so I’m working on that personally. Yeah. Like, okay, make some space for this. Make some space for this. And I say this to myself a lot. Um, and I think a lot of men have been told like anger is a more acceptable emotion …
Sarah:
Absolutely.
Emma:
Than these other emotions. So they’re like, little boys are told like don’t cry but it’s okay if you’re mad.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Emma:
Right. And some people develop that but one of the things I’ve been thinking about as we try and make space for anger, I read an article on NPR about emotional granularity, which is basically just getting as many words as possible for that experience. So if you’re feeling angry, are you frustrated? Are you irritated? Are you aggravated?
Sarah:
Nice?
Emma:
Are you disappointed?
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
Are you hurt? So using like as many little words as possible and um, using like an emotions chart can help.
Sarah:
I love that. Just that process is leaning into the emotion. That’s awesome.
Emma:
Yeah. So, making it concrete. This is all that you’re hearing. The same process that you talk about in your Keys of Grief and everything, right? Make these words, make words for what you’re feeling. Make it concrete, lean into it, and then clarify and move through it. So, Yeah. Okay. All right. Let’s take a look at the next question.
Anticipatory Grief
Emma:
Okay, so another question that came up a lot is, um, about grieving someone who isn’t gone yet. So this follower asked, um, “I’d like to know how you carry on with life. I’m very close to my parents and I’m dreading when they go. And I don’t know how I will be able to function as I will be too emotional. And what about Christmas time and birthday without them?” Right. And we’ve got other questions too about family members who aren’t gone yet but are perhaps experiencing like dementia or Alzheimer’s or other, you know, terminal illnesses and they know that that loss is pending. And they’re wondering, how do I deal with that both now and when it happens?
Sarah:
Right? So anticipatory grief is what we’re talking about. Um, and it is, I would say, one of the most challenging experiences to try and navigate, uh, because you are anticipating the loss but it has not yet happened. Um, with the first question, uh, I’m not sure if she’s concerned or they are concerned, I apologize, if they are concerned about, um, their parents dying because there is an illness and so they’re expecting the loss to happen or if they’re, uh, experiencing worry and anxiety about this is gonna happen one day. And what do I do one day? So I think the first thing I would say, if it’s not, um, a loss that you know is going to be happening, um, in the next few months or year, that it, the goal would be bring yourself back to the present. Um, and so focus on, I’m here, they are here now. What are the, what are the experiences I want to have with them now? Um, versus I would say robbing yourself of the time that you have with them. Worrying about all of the what ifs, that will happen at some point.
Emma:
I like how you, I like how you say that because emotions are meant to motivate us to action. Right? So if you’re feeling like, oh, I feel a little bit of preemptory sadness about some future event, that emotion could just be a motivation to be like, oh, I wanna make sure I spend time with them. I wanna make sure I’m mentally present with them.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Emma:
I wanna make sure I tell them I love them.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Emma:
I wanna make sure, whatever.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Emma:
And using those emotions as action motivators. Yep. Instead of locking those emotions down.
Sarah:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So with anticipatory grief, yes, we know. So there’s been a diagnosis or we’ve been told there’s a job layoff coming or we’re making a move. Even if we’re excited about the move, there can be anticipatory loss. And, and so it becomes challenging to figure out, okay, what am I supposed to do with this? . So I know I’m gonna sound like a broken record but it comes back to experience what you’re experiencing now. Um, so if, if there is fear, if there is, uh, pain, if there is, um, I’m, you know, so sad or I’m so angry, uh, about what’s going to happen, acknowledge what is happening now and the focus is on processing that. Certainly you can be thinking about, okay, what am I going to do when this loss happens? So you can be thinking about what’s my plan? How am I gonna react? Who am I gonna reach out to? All of those kinds of things in addition. Um, and it really is gonna be a bit of a rollercoaster ride, um, as you’re dealing with, uh, if you were to think about, I think there was a question here about a parent who is dealing with dementia but it seems to be this type of dementia that comes and goes.
Emma:
Oh yeah.
Sarah:
And so their parent is there at some point and then gone, absent. And so think about the rollercoaster of emotion that that sort of situation would create. Um, and, and it’s just allowing yourself without judgment to be experiencing what you’re experiencing and having ways to, uh, express that.
Emma:
So starting with just the basics of like naming it. Like, this is a valid emotion I’m feeling. The word that we, therapist, might use is anticipatory grief and leaning into those emotions. Um ….
Sarah:
So you can’t plan. You can’t plan.
Emma:
And planning.
Sarah:
Yes. So anticipatory grief can be an opportunity to start the grieving process before the losses happened, which means potentially when the loss happens, there’s a different experience at that point because you’ve had a chance to start this process.
Emma:
Yeah, that makes sense.
Numbness
Emma:
Okay, so the next set of questions we have is all about kind of feeling numb, uh, when people can’t cry, like they’re either so upset that they can’t cry or they’re just not crying. And then other people wrote about not experiencing grief after losing someone. So this person, for example, tells someone they’ve lost someone and then the person they’re talking to is like, oh, I feel so sorry for you. But the person writing’s like, I didn’t feel anything and now I feel ashamed that I don’t feel grief. Like I just don’t feel anything. And you know, they ask, “Is it okay to not feel grief? And how do you deal with society seemingly making you feel ashamed of not grieving?” So it’s kind of two questions. I think.
Sarah:
There’s a lot here. And so I’ll try and keep my thoughts. Um, okay. So first of all, numb. Um, not unusual. Not unusual after we experience loss. So that could be we’re in shock or we’re in denial.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
So initially it’s very, very common to feel numb or a lack of emotion.
Emma:
And can I pause you there just for a sec?
Sarah:
Of course.
Emma:
Because if we look at your nervous system and how it responds to threats, which grief and a loss is perceived as a threat, right?
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
So initially you’ll have often a fight, flight, freeze response like shaking, crying, sad, upset, fast heart, worried, anxious ….
Sarah:
Yes.
Emma:
Scared, sad, like big emotions.
Sarah:
Yep.
Emma:
But when those emotions are overwhelming, so that’s the, like the first stage of the fight, flight response, when those emotions are overwhelming, your body has another layer down in the nervous system that’s the freeze response. Did I just cut you off? Is that what you were gonna say?
Sarah:
No, you’re totally good.
Emma:
Alright.
Sarah:
All good? All good. Yeah.
Emma:
So that numbing response is one way the body re responds to overwhelming emotions
Sarah:
Yep
Emma:
is to kind of go into this shutdown space. Yeah. And numb space.
Sarah:
So it’s actually protective. It’s trying to protect us. Uh, and so I wouldn’t suggest there’s a great deal for a cost for concern when you’re experiencing that, uh, after a loss.
Emma:
Especially in the first stages.
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
First couple of months.
Sarah:
Correct. if it continues then there can be some other things that are going on. Um, so there is what’s called absent grief.
Emma:
Okay.
Sarah:
Uh, and so that can be an absence of emotion and that could be for a variety of reasons. It may be that I just am not yet ready or able to deal with the loss and so I have just shut it down. And that can actually go on for an extended period of time. If so, then yes, the the recommendation is you’re going to need some additional support and help in walking through that. There may be another reason I wouldn’t necessarily say it would be numb but a lack of emotion. Again, everybody goes through the grief process differently.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
So you may see some people who aren’t expressing a lot of emotion and think, oh, what’s wrong?
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
There may be nothing wrong. There’s may be a much more subtle way of expressing grief or they may not have had a significant attachment um, so it’s not uncommon when you have multiple people who’ve experienced the same loss. And you see a variety of different reactions for there to be judgment about what’s happening.
Emma:
Interesting.
Sarah:
We wanna be really careful, I talk about this in the 9 Keys, about just how damaging that can be. Um, so there can be a whole lot of things going on. um, in terms of lack of emotion or numbness. The question would be, um, it’s really a self-assessment. So, am I really numb? Have I really just cut myself off, shut things down and I’m not connected to any emotion. Because that’s the thing about emotion, we don’t just get to selectively decide which emotions we won’t feel.
Emma:
You can’t selectively numb. So like if you cut yourself off from that grief, you’re also like not gonna be able to experience joy.
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
Or connection with other people.
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
Like we can’t just stuff one emotion.
Sarah:
No. No. And so if that’s what’s happening, then that tells you, okay, there’s really some stuff here that I need to figure out how to address.
Emma:
So you’ll see it squirt out in other parts of your life.
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
You’ll see it pop out in physical ways or you’ll see it pop out in like your work or your performance or your sleep or your appetite, right?
Sarah:
Yep. You got it.
Emma:
So if you’re suppressing emotions, you’re gonna know, cuz things aren’t gonna work out.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Emma:
You’re gonna not be okay.
Sarah:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Emma:
And then …. and then there’s other, there’s another aspect of this that might be like just different styles.
Sarah:
Correct. Correct. And so then I wanted to touch on the second part where she’s asking about what if I’m not feeling and I’m legitimately not feeling a whole lot of grief.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
And I have other people making comments, which then are creating feelings of shame.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
So number one, it’s again important to remind yourself that everyone’s process is different. I don’t know this situation. Uh, I would encourage you to sort of consider who are these people? So are these people, and the way I describe it, is, have they earned the right to hear your story? Mm-hmm. ? Um, so is it someone that you would sort of help educate. Listen, you know, for whatever reason this really just wasn’t, you know, significant for me. I love them. I cared about them or it was hard certainly. But I’m really not struggling with it. So, is it a person you would help educate about what’s happening? Or is it someone you just recognize, okay, this is what happens? People are uncomfortable with loss and so their intentions are good. But they’re making comments that aren’t super helpful. So I’m just gonna practice being able to separate. This isn’t actually about me, it’s about them and what they’re trying to do. And I can appreciate that and not take that on as a message about I’m doing something wrong.
Emma:
Yeah. Yeah. So allowing other people to just kind of do, like, do their thing but making sure that you’re working your process
Sarah:
Yep.
Emma:
And validating and honoring your own ….
Sarah:
Yep.
Emma:
Process. And even with numbness, right? Like if you’re like, I can’t feel numb like just like another sensation that you’re like, I can’t feel this. This is bad. Not gonna be super helpful.
Sarah:
Correct. Again, that, yeah, that judging of, yeah. Absolutely.
Emma:
With that emotion, you could do the similar process. Notice it, name it, explore it.
Sarah:
Yep.
Emma:
Express it. Use different approaches.
Sarah:
You got it.
Emma:
And then I guess as you’re talking, I’m thinking about this kind of neurodiversity approach as well. Like if you had 10 people and they all lost 10 kids and they all lost their dad, let’s say ….
Sarah:
Right
Emma:
And one of these might be a highly sensitive, highly expressive person who’s gonna be like, and like they’re gonna just show it and everything they feel you’re gonna see and they’re gonna work through and everyone’s gonna be like, you poor thing. and hug and connect.
Sarah:
Yep.
Emma:
And then someone else might be a highly sensitive person but not super emotional.
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
And so they might do their process journaling and writing and composing music or a play about this experience.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Emma:
And someone else might be, we don’t talk about this much cuz we don’t see them in therapy. But like a …. a lowly sensitive person.
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
Someone who’s maybe just not as intensely emotional and they maybe process it more in some other way.
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
By fixing a car by intellectualizing, which isn’t good when it’s a defense mechanism.
Sarah:
Correct. Correct.
Emma:
But some people are just simply more logical and rational.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Emma:
And I was watching, um, I’ve been talking about this a lot but I was watching this movie, um, The Rescue. It’s about these, uh, British middle-aged men who helped rescue the soccer team that got trapped in a cave in Thailand.
Sarah:
Oh, okay. Okay.
Emma:
It’s kinda of a tangent, but so these boys get trapped in a cave and the cave floods and they’re trapped in this air pocket. No one knows if they’re alive actually but they are. And the whole like Thai army and their Navy seals are trying to rescue them. But the guys who have the expertise are these four middle-aged British guys and they do all this extreme caving.
Sarah:
Okay.
Emma:
And in the end, spoiler alert, they rescue these boys. Um, and one of the Navy Seals actually dies because they just simply didn’t have the expertise to do this extreme type of rescue that no one has ever completed. But one of the guys who rescued them to complete this rescue, they had to swim like a mile underwater in the dark with a little teeny feel line.
Sarah:
Oh my gosh.
Emma:
Go in and then try this experimental procedure where they anesthetize these boys. They put ’em under. Put a face mask on them and then stick them under the water.
Sarah:
Oh my gosh.
Emma:
And pull them for an hour, through the cave out and saved them and no one knew if it would work. The doctor who provided the anesthesia was like, I could end up in jail. I mean, they were working through the channels and they were doing it right. Incredibly intense experience and these boys have been in the cave like 17 days. And one of these cave divers who helps pull one of these boys out and gets ’em out and they all survive. Right? While he’s pulling the boy out, the boy stops breathing but they’re underwater. Like he can’t do anything. And he has to, he kind of readjusts the mask and he adjusts the neck and he just kind of tries to take care of this boy. And they get to a pocket of air and he pulls the mask off and he readjusts and he pulls it and readjusts and pull. And I mean, this goes on for a long time.
Sarah:
Oh my God.
Emma:
Long story short, he’s able to get this boy out of the water and they take the mask off and the boy’s alive.
Sarah:
Oh my goodness.
Emma:
And he says in this video, he says, people have been telling me my whole life, I’m too unemotional. I don’t have enough emotions. And he says with a tiny quiver in his voice, maybe this is my gift.
Sarah:
Yep.
Emma:
Right. Like maybe. This is one of my gifts. And if we take a neurodiversity approach, people process their feelings and experience feelings in a lot of different ways.
Sarah:
Yes. Yeah.
Emma:
And so I, I like, I just keep thinking about this story of like, there are good different types of brains out there.
Sarah:
Yep.
Emma:
And they all serve different functions.
Sarah:
Yep.
Emma:
So maybe someone who’s not feeling grief in the standard way also has something really good to offer.
Sarah:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Emma:
You know and their process.
Sarah:
Yeah. It just comes down to this is as unique for each person and so it, yeah, it’s so critical to give ourselves permission for the process to be our own and unfold as it needs to and then for us not to be critical or judgmental of how other people are doing their process.
Emma:
Yeah. As long as we’re processing.
Sarah:
Yes. . Yes.
Emma:
Great.
Do You Ever Get Over Grief
Emma:
Okay, so our next question is from Jocelyn. She says, “Is it normal to never fully get over feelings of sadness when thinking about a lost loved one?”
Sarah:
Yeah, it’s a really good question. So if we were to use the example of, uh, a parent or a child who has died, it’s easy to see when we ask the question, will that death ever stop being a loss? The answer is no.
Emma:
Right?
Sarah:
The answer is no.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
So the goal in moving through and processing our grief is not to get over but to learn how to live with. So I can say, you know, I can say, yeah, your loss is never gonna stop being a loss. And, and I worry people are like, okay, that’s just depressing.
Emma:
Right. That’ll always feel this overwhelmed forever.
Sarah:
Right, right. So, um, what does change is the, uh, extent to which the loss is impacting you. So that is what will change and shift over time, not the fact that it’s no longer a loss. So what the question about, is it normal to continue to feel sadness? Absolutely. Absolutely. And there will be times where that sadness is stronger and other times where it’s more subtle. Um, it’s sort of a constant ebb and flow, um, when we’re talking about loss. Um, but I, yeah, I feel very strongly it’s important for people to understand loss is not something we get over.
Emma:
So if we were to describe what happens instead, because the goal, again, people I think mistakenly have this idea that the goal is to stop feeling, to stop feeling sad, to stop feeling angry, to stop feeling. So instead, would you agree with the terms like, um, make space for, or grow in your capacity to feel those feelings and be okay?
Sarah:
Yeah.
Emma:
Or integrate or learn how to adapt to the new situation.
Sarah:
Yep, yep. All of those I think are accurate. In Nine Keys, I reference, um, David Kessler, who’s done a lot of work around this and one of my favorite things that he says is “Grief is not just something we go through, it’s something we grow through.” So, absolutely the idea is, how will this change me as a person in a positive way. So will I learn to be more aware of, um, what’s important to me, finding a voice in the things that matter rather than staying silent? Um, or really appreciating the time that I have or I mean, there can be lots and lots of meanings that we find. But that is the goal is to grow through this experience and find meaning in what we’ve gone through.”
Emma:
I like that. I like that One of the, like, things that’s coming to me visually, an image that is popping into my brain is something I saw where it’s like you never, your grief doesn’t necessarily shrink. They’ve used a picture of like a little vase and then your grief is like this big and it feels the whole vase. They said but your capacity to hold it grows and like, as we talk about getting better at feeling, learning to use words, learning to share, learning to reach out to resources, and create compassion for our emotions, our capacity to grow to to feel grows so that while that sadness is there, it’s not like overflowing.
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
And um, we also have capacity to add on the ants. Like, oh, I feel sadness and I can cook breakfast. I feel sadness and I can function at work. I feel sadness and ….
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
And ….
Sarah:
And I can feel gratitude. I can feel sadness and gratitude. Yeah, absolutely.
Emma:
And anger and numbness in all the emotions. Right?
Sarah:
Absolutely.
Emma:
So yeah, it’s like getting better at feeling
Sarah:
Completely.
Emma:
Yeah. Yeah. Great. Thank you.
Closure When You Can't Say Goodbye
Emma:
So the next question we wanna address is, “What about when you can’t say goodbye?” Like for a lot of people with the pandemic, their loved ones were in hospitals and those hospitals weren’t allowing visitors and then their loved one passed away. And there’s other experiences where people lose someone and they aren’t able to say goodbye or it’s abrupt or sudden. How can people move past that or move through that.
Sarah:
Yeah. So again, it’s gonna look different for each person but it’s finding a way for you to express, um, that sadness, that loss. So it may be, I’m going to write a letter to the person who died. And I’m going to express how sad I was that I didn’t get a chance to say goodbye or I’m going to express, here’s all the things I appreciated and loved about you. Um, so that would be one opportunity. Um, another opportunity would be, again, I’m going to create a service or some sort of memorial where I honor them. Yeah. Um, another opportunity would be I am going to, um, I had one woman decide I’m going to donate. So every year on my father’s birthday, I’m going to donate to an organization, a charity that I know is meaningful to him. And so that’s how I’m honoring and remembering him. So again, we start with acknowledge and honor that it is a true loss that you didn’t have the chance to say goodbye. And then look at, okay, that’s not a chance I can get back. What are some other ways that I can honor and say goodbye in my own way?
Emma:
Okay. I’m gonna throw something out here. We might end up cutting it because I just had like, this is something that popped into my mind and I’m curious to ask you about.
Sarah:
Okay.
Emma:
Like if someone is sad that they didn’t say goodbye. And they maybe feel like that’s an ending that they could never fix because the other person never got to hear goodbye. Would you ever frame it like, what if we take that as actually that sadness is your sadness and that’s on your end of the closure and you can add closure to that.
Sarah:
Okay, so you’re asking they’re worried about the other person having been sad?
Emma:
Yeah, they’re worried about the, like, they can never get closure because they can never fix it cuz that person’s gone.
Sarah:
Oh, oh, oh, oh, yes.
Emma:
And can they create closure within themselves because the grief or the sadness or the intensity of feeling they’re having about not saying goodbye is actually inside of them.
Sarah:
Right. Yes.
Emma:
Not inside of their deceased loved one.
Sarah:
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I’d be interested to explore why is it their responsibility to fix it for this other person? Maybe there’s some other stuff going on there.
Emma:
Um, that’s a good question.
Sarah:
But no, I like what you’re saying. Yes. It’s, it’s really again, about what’s happening inside of me in this moment and how do I address that versus, um, continuing to be focused on something that is completely out of my control.
Emma:
Yeah, and I guess my bigger question is how do you address this idea of closure? What is that?
Sarah:
Yeah, it’s a good question. Uh, and I don’t think there’s a clear answer.
Emma:
Okay.
Sarah:
Closure is gonna look differently for different people. I’m, I would say they’re, that for some people, they’re not really worried or concerned or think about the idea of closure and that may be due to their personality. That may be, that could be due to spiritual beliefs, that could be to a whole lot of different things. Um, for other people, yes, closure’s going to be important. And again, that could. um, that could look like a lot of different experiences. Um, so it could be the spreading of ashes. It could be the sharing of, um, stories or photographs with other family members or people who, uh, were significant to them. And what we’re talking about here is it’s never done.
Emma:
That’s right. Yeah. Like, are they hoping this gets tied up in a bow and put on a shelf and never pulled out again.
Sarah:
That would be, yeah, I think for some people yes.
Emma:
Or is it like, um, A Thousand Splendid Suns. Have you read that book?
Sarah:
Yes.
Emma:
Right. Or the Kite Runner. You know, where people are like, I have to actually fix something because I know that this loose end inside of me needs to be tied up.
Sarah:
And that would be another example is if someone has started a project and now they’re gone and you finish that project for them or in their memory. Yeah. But it’s a good question. What am I looking for in closure?
Emma:
Yeah. Clarify. Clarify.
Sarah:
Yeah.
How Do You Get Back To Functioning And Practical Action Steps
Emma:
So next question’s um, we got a lot of questions about this, so I’ll just generalize it. “How do you get back to functioning after experiencing such an intense loss. Um, and what are practical action steps to take with grief?”
Sarah:
Yeah. Okay. Really good questions. So, the first thing I wanna start with, with functioning is, again, what is your expectation about getting back to functioning? Um, I use this example, if you’re employed and you and your employer provides you bereavement days, how many bereavement days do you typically get? It’s not usually more than a week. Yeah, often less than a week. And so there’s this implied message of someone that I love dies. I need to figure it out and be able to get back to work seven days later. Right? So again, our, our culture, our society does not do a great job of allowing for us to be a mess for a minute.
Emma:
That’s right. Yeah. It’s like this shame about like, you’re not allowed to be a mess.
Sarah:
Right?
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
Right. So that would be the first thing I wanna say is, in terms of getting back to functioning, have you actually given yourself time to not function?
Emma:
Like making space. Yeah. And self-compassion.
Sarah:
You got it. You got it. Okay. So in terms of once you’re feeling like, okay, it’s time to step back in it’s just deciding a little bit at a time. So for one person it might be, I’m going to start taking a shower each day. For another person it might be, okay, I’m ready to start driving my kids back to school. Um, it may be I’m ready to go back to work but it’s, it’s being connected enough with where you’re at and what’s going on that you can recognize what’s my capacity. So I would say do not try and take it all on at once. It’s, it needs to be a little bit at a time and it’s going to look unique for each of you in terms of what the next, what the next step is.
Emma:
Yeah. Yeah. I like that. And I can like, I’m such a visual person. I’m thinking of a couple of visualizations here. One of them is when we use in trauma, which is this idea of window of tolerance, which is like when you are completely overwhelmed, you’re not in the growth zone, basically. You’re not able to make growth and when you’re in complete avoidance, you’re also not making growth.
Sarah:
Right? Right.
Emma:
So we try and help our clients get into this window of tolerance, which is what’s that little margin of place where you feel safe enough or connected enough to make one tiny step forward. And that’s the other like visual image I have in my mind is like this growth zone, comfort zone, avoidance zone chart, right? Like you wanna stay out of the panic zone and out of the avoidance zone and just in your growth zone. And that’s like kind of how I think about this. And then again, in your course, you use this I this metaphor of a plate.
Sarah:
Yes.
Emma:
You have to think about how much capacity do I have and I have to take into account or budget for grief. Like I have to put that in my budget, my emotion budget.
Sarah:
There has to be room created for it. Yeah.
Emma:
And so if you like for example, go back to work too fast and you just push it all down and you just stay busy, that’s keeping you in this avoidance mode, which you’re gonna, it’s pop out somewhere else. Yeah. I’m not gonna say you’re gonna crash and burn but like you won’t necessarily be making space for processing.
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
So it’s almost like you think about this as a budget or as a time and like how much extra wiggle room or energy do I have today? If I have one extra minute, then I will use that to function right for one minute.
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
If I have 10 minutes, I’ll make space for that. And making space so that this is a growth process.
Sarah:
Correct? Those are great visuals.
Emma:
Okay. Practical action steps to take with grief. What are practical action steps to take with grief that are universal for everyone?
Sarah:
Yeah. Yeah. I’m a little concerned about this question cuz you’re not gonna like my answer.
Emma:
Right. And maybe Yeah, because basic cuz it’s not, there is not one step.
Sarah:
No. So, I understand it. I know. We want a list. We wanna be able to check it off and so we can say, “Oh, I’m done!” Right? So I totally get where this is coming from. Honestly, if I were to give practical action steps, it’s going to be things like I am pausing each day to reflect and connect with where I’m at and what’s going on. So, I create space in my schedule. So that might mean each morning before I got out of bed. I’m taking a few deep breaths and I’m tuning in and I’m checking in with what do I need today? Um, so that could be another practical step could be I’m going to create space for journaling each day. Um, and so, you know, here’s how I’m feeling. Here’s what’s going on. So it’s those kinds of practical things where you’re creating space for and stepping into the processing of daily or regularly that will be moving you through the process.
Emma:
And if like, as you teach this in your course, right, some of these ways to create scaffolding around that create actionable steps is like get an emotion chart and identify an emotion word. or you can get an app that prompts you to do that.
Sarah:
Yep.
Emma:
Where like a practical step would be, um, setting a reminder on your phone
Sarah:
Yes.
Emma:
To lean into your grief.
Sarah:
Yes.
Emma:
So like, we’ve taken, so this vague idea of like, you should feel your feelings. And then it’s like, okay, set a time for for it.
Sarah:
Right. Right.
Emma:
Give yourself space, give yourself compassion around your emotions.
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
Um, set a reminder. Use a journal. Use an app. Something to check in with yourself. That’s like the most practical.
Sarah:
Yes. Because we’re just, we’re all so busy and it’s so easy, it’s so much easier to avoid and ignore and I, you know, I just, I’ve got all of these people I need to take care of and all of these things that have to happen that we just don’t create the space and I really think it has to be an intentional thing. Um, it’s not just gonna magically show up.
Emma:
It’s not just gonna happen to you.
Sarah:
Correct.
Emma:
Yeah. Yeah. And then with some of your other keys that you mentioned in your course, there’s like connecting with people and so what if that’s just not naturally happen? What if you’re alone or what if you’re, so how, what would be a practical, actionable step to connect with someone about your grief?
Sarah:
Yeah. So again, it could be, um, a grief group. So things that you’ve talked about before. So, David Kessler on, um, Grief.com offers a weekly online, grief group. Um, that you could join and be a part of.
Emma:
Oh, yeah.
Sarah:
So there’s some interaction in that. Yeah. Um, it could be, again, reaching, even if it’s long distance, reaching out to an old friend or to a family member who’s maybe not next door but you can do FaceTime or you can, um, you know, have that connection in another way.
Emma:
Yeah. One of the things I’ve, like a light bulb has popped onto my, in my brain lately about like connecting with people is this idea of a recurring friend date, where like, if you see a friend only once a month, like I have some friends like that I see once a month, right? That when you go out to lunch with them, you say, okay, let’s put it in our calendar again for one month from now. And that might have to change that week of. But if it’s in your calendar, it’s a lot more likely it’ll happen.
Sarah:
Yes.
Emma:
And um,
Sarah:
Yeah. That’s great.
Emma:
I’m really liking the recurring friend, I think.
Sarah:
Yeah. No, that’s great. That’s great. And it brings out another point when we connect with people, again, depending on where you’re at in the grief process, it doesn’t always have to be this heavy sort of, let me talk about my sadness, um, laughing. Laughing can be a huge part of moving through this, although potentially brings up some guilt initially coz I’m not supposed to. Right? But, um, it can be fun. It can be lighthearted. It can be, that’s just as important as having space to talk about the hard stuff.
Emma:
Right?
Sarah:
Yeah. Yeah.
Emma:
Creating space for that.
Sarah:
So this is a woman, um, who experienced, uh, four miscarriages. And so she reached out to me and was really struggling with the idea that she may never be able to get pregnant. Had a lot of grief. Um, she certainly also saw these miscarriages as her babies, as her children.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
And so we did a lot of work around, um, you know, how to process, how to honor those babies. One of the practical things she did, um, was, so one of the books I recommend is Understanding Your Grief by Allan Wolfelt. In addition to that book, he has a guide or a journaling companion.
Emma:
Okay.
Sarah:
And so each day she would, um, spend time answering questions from that guidebook to sort of help, um, process but allow for those emotions to come up and be processed.
Emma:
Awesome. That sounds great. That sounds great. Cuz people sometimes just need like a, something to hold onto.
Sarah:
Right.
Emma:
That’s something really directive.
Sarah:
Right. Yeah, no, there are lots of journals out there or lots of companions, um, for grief that you could get your hands on and just use that on a daily or a weekly basis. Again, depending on who you are and what your situation is.
Emma:
I love that
Sarah:
To help move the process forward.
Emma:
Great. Awesome.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Emma:
Thank you.
Grieving When You Have Kids
Emma:
Okay, so our last question is from someone who said, um, “I have a lot of unresolved stuff with the deceased.” So they’re navigating grief and she says also, “When you’re still raising young children and you don’t have the time or space or support to process.” And I think a lot of people could identify with that because maybe they have to work a lot.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Emma:
Or they’ve got a lot of other things going on. Like most people’s plates are very full.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Emma:
So it’s kind of ironic that while we ask that question, the baby starts crying and needs me. So, okay. So how do you process when you’re dealing with a lot going on
Sarah:
Now? I’m now, I’m just gonna be totally distracted.
Emma:
Right. This is how this works though. Right.
Sarah:
Okay. So yes, a couple of thoughts. One would be is it’s gonna be happening in very small um, very small pieces.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
So for instance, uh, when the kids go down for a nap. Then you’re intentionally pulling out that journal or you’re intentionally, um, calling a friend during that nap to sort of talk about and share your story.
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
Um, it could be, I’m going to, I know this doesn’t, can’t happen every day in every, but I’m gonna let myself cry in the shower. So I’ve got, even if it’s a three-minute shower I’ve got that time, the water’s running. So I know a lot of people are concerned about, you know, how will it impact my kids if they see me, um, so upset. So it would be something like that. It would be, um, working with a partner or a spouse one evening a week. They’ve got the kids and you’ve got that space to go and do something. So some of this is going to be, uh, creativity. It could be thinking about, okay, do I have a church group? Um, is there a community center in my area that offers, um, child support? Um, or what are the respite care options in my area?
Emma:
Yeah.
Sarah:
Um, another thing that I’ve seen moms do is create, uh, babysitting traits.
Emma:
Oh, yeah.
Sarah:
And so that can be really helpful. Once a week, um, their kids come to my house and once a week my kids go to their house. So each of us get a break once a week. And so you can set up, um, those kinds of things, uh, to create a break. Yeah. Uh, it does, it requires being creative. It requires thinking outside of the box. I am going to say, time has to be found.
Emma:
You have to make space for it or it’s not gonna help your kids.
Sarah:
Correct. Correct.
Emma:
And I can understand that as a mom, like how hard it is to create space, like when you’re struggling, like even with Ryan and I like, when we have to have a conversation and the kids are around and they need to talk to us and we’re like, but we need to and like sometimes it’s stuck with our marriage or whatever’s going on.
Sarah:
Right?
Emma:
It is so hard to create space but I’m a big fan of putting it on a calendar like we have to have our powwow at night when all we wanna be doing is watching Instagram reels, you know? Like we have to make ourselves do that because as a mom you have such little time and even if it’s just in tiny doses, again, like using apps, I have some apps on my phone that like remind me to do the hard things like journal instead of just watch Instagram, which is what I want to do
Sarah:
Right
Emma:
When the kid goes on for a nap.
Sarah:
Again. Yeah. It’s finding exactly so unique. It’s finding those things that work for you. So if it’s on the calendar, if it’s I’ve set an alarm in my phone if it’s, you know, I have a friend that calls me and says, “Have you done this today?” It’s finding those ways to make it a priority. It can’t be your only priority. It needs to be a priority.
Emma:
Yeah. Yeah. So, I’ve got a follow up question for you then.
Sarah:
Okay.
Emma:
Because you mentioned crying in the shower, which I think is a good option. My follow up question is, is it okay to let your kids see you really upset?
Sarah:
Absolutely. Yes.
Emma:
What, what if you’re really, really, really upset. Is it okay?,
Sarah:
So the challenge becomes, um, first of all, the age of your kids. Uh, so if you’ve got really young kids, they’re not gonna know how to interpret that. And so that can just feel really scary to them. Um, I think, I personally think it’s okay for kids to feel in or to see you expressing intense emotion, especially if you’ve been educating them. You’ve been talking to ’em about emotion, you’ve been helping them name emotion. And then after the experience, you go back and have a conversation. You know, here’s what was going on. Here’s one of those times, here’s how, you know, when, when we feel things really big, you know, this is one of the ways that it can show up. So if you’re, if you’re getting to the point where like if it’s rage and you’re feeling out of control, there’s obviously then safety. No. Right. Right, if there’s any sort of safety issue.
Emma:
And if you guys are interested, you can check our course, 9 Keys for Moving Through Grief And Loss. You’ll find the link below. Thank you all for watching and take care.
